Justin and Ryan recap the E3 2019 Google and Microsoft press briefings. Why did we start so early, Google? Is the streaming future now? Who does Keanu work for?

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Cast: Justin Lacey, Ryan Billingsley

• Google Stadia Intro
  • A couple highs
  • A couple lows
  • How did Google do?
• Xbox Intro
  • A couple highs
  • A couple lows
  • How did Microsoft do?

E3 2019 Podcasts

• Google and Microsoft
• Third Party Party
• Nintendo and E3 2020

Justin and Ryan recap the E3 2018 Microsoft press conference. Are there any exclusive games that will sell more consoles this year? How are those first party games coming? Is there a Halo?

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Cast: Justin Lacey, Ryan Billingsley

• State of Xbox and Expectations
• A couple highs
• A couple lows
• What's next for Xbox?

Links - All the Xbox Trailers, Microsoft E3 2017 Press Conference

E3 2018 Podcasts

• Microsoft
• Sony
• Nintendo
• Third Party
• Aftermath

Justin and Ryan recap the E3 2017 Microsoft press conference. Project Scorpio gets a name and a price, but does it get the games? Will there be enough booty to go around the entire Sea of Thieves?

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Show Features

Cast: Justin Lacey, Ryan Billingsley

• State of Xbox and Expectations
• A couple highs
• A couple lows
• What's next for Xbox?

Links - All the Xbox Trailers, Microsoft E3 2017 Press Conference

This was supposed to be just another year in the middle of a video game console cycle. Instead, we're trying to figure out what VR means for gaming and now all the consoles are freaking out. We previously discussed the moddable future of the Xbox One, but all of these PS4.5 rumors are getting too loud to ignore.

There are just too many details out there to ignore this any further so once the hardware upgrades involved in a potential fall update for the PS4, codenamed NEO, we tried to make sense of our uncertain console future once again.

Gut Reaction

Coop - That new PlayStation is bullshit. They're going to fuck up the reason people buy consoles.

Justin Gifford - I know the idea was floating around with what Phil said at the MS thing, but an 'elite' model of the PS4? Are they going to continue to make the 'base' model? But overall, yeah, you nailed it.

Justin Lacey - Well it’s either that or people are going to stop buying consoles anyway. I think it has to happen. And as long as games work back to 2-3 hardware revisions it will work out.

There was some interesting quote I heard on a podcast last week about interviews with high school students that basically said consoles are for their parents. They aren’t buying PCs either, so at least they (Sony and MS) are being a bit preemptive to try to break the cycle before it is forced on them.

• JG - If high school students aren't buying PCs or consoles, are they not gaming at all? I'm a little confused. It's not like they're effing going outside.
• JL - They are playing Clash of Clans and fighting about it in the hallways, and I’m not joking.
• JG - I weep for the future of our youth.
• JL - Gotta be different than your parents somehow. That’s why Snapchat is popular.
• JG - Wait, why is Snapchat popular? Clash of Clans? I may have to raise Thomas and our daughter in isolation.

JL - And if you think about it, my 360 broke so often, I was buying a new one every 3 years anyway :) At least this time I’ll be able to run my games better and at higher resolutions.

C - Bahaha, that is actually a very good point. I think I'm on my 3rd 360.

JL - I guess I came into this console generation accepting that consoles as we knew them were doomed. And I honestly expected one of Microsoft or Sony to stubbornly fight it and fall on their face.

The Wrong Foot

How did we get to 3 year consoles already needing upgrades? Was the bar just too low to start this generation or is has something else changed?

JL - I think the only frustrating part for me is that the NEO is actually the 1080 60fps console they originally promised the PS4 would be. But at least MS and SOny are both making plans, which is good, and it should help games push boundaries faster rather than stagnate like the final 2 years of the 360.

C - The PS4 didn't quite get there.

JL - Well, you were delusional if you thought that was real. The summer before launch they were barely promising 1080p 30fps. Cuz barely any games do that now, especially on Xbone. But hey, Ratchet and Clank is pretty :)

C - Yeah, the good ones don't. Oh yeah, Xbone is struggling even more. Sony has quite a few 1080 60 games. Just the big open world ones can't get close.

JL - Does it?

C - It does actually.

JL - What, like 2D indie games? :)

C - I think the graphics look shitty on the ones that hit it. Here we go -
Xbox One and PS4 Native Framerates - Looks like it is mainly the battlefields, call of duties, sports... It's more than I thought originally.

JL - So old games and sports games. Fucking Killzone couldn’t do 1080p 60 and MGS V was originally supposed to be on PS3.

C - Yeah, I thought Killzone was supposed to hit it. I guess it didn't.

JL - But hey, Rocket League :) Yeah, there’s nothing “new” that runs at 1080p 60 on the list that isn’t a sports game or a last-gen port.

C - Yeah. The Last of Us Remastered, but again, it's an old game.

JL - Exactly, and we aren’t even 3 years in.

C - Games got way bigger when these consoles came out. CD Projekt Red kicked that bar way up :)

JL - CD Projekt Red was held back by the consoles if anything. I think it [NEO] is a good idea, and I’m glad we have an option as long as it doesn’t render old PS4s useless for another 2 years. 'Cuz if you get 5 years out of your console that's :thumbsup:

C - Yeah, sounds like we're good for a while. I still have my 970 if I want a game to look pretty :) I didn't buy a PS4 for the graphics.

JL - Nooope. I bought it for Naughty Dog and multiplayer games.

C - Apparently, I bought it for Rocket League and MMOs.

What about Microsoft and Nintendo

While none of this will be cleared up until some formal announcements are made, if this is what Sony is not telling us, you have to wonder what Microsoft and Nintendo aren't telling us.

C - I'm sure Microsoft has a 1.5 one in the works, too. Might just be waiting on Sony to see if they're gonna go for it or not.

JG - Did I miss something? I thought Microsoft specifically brought up something about modularity or was that just pie in the sky talk?

C - He talked about it as a concept, but he said regarding a 1.5, if Xbox is going to move forward, it'll be in a big way. Whatever that means. Could still be modular. But it sounds more like a new modular console, rather than an upgrade for your current one like people initial thought they might be working on.

JG - Gotcha. it's interesting - these boxes are what, two and a half years old? And they're talking upgrading/replacing? Shit, we got like 9 years out of the 360, right?

C - If they drop a new console, that is upgraded with the ability to continue to upgrade it for lesser chunks of money, they might be onto something, but then, then just put a PC in your living room. Well, @JDevL brought up the fact that we're all on our 2nd and 3rd Xbox 360, so did we really? :)

JG - I'm only on my second, but that's fair.

C - So I'd rather buy a console every 3 years and get a performance boost, than buy a new one and get the same one to replace my broken one.

JL - It's easy to forget how the last gen went on for a year or two longer than normal. I still think 5 years is a good run for a console so (modular) upgrades at the midpoint (2-3 years) makes sense.

Coleman Monroe - If these consoles do get updated this year... Nintendo might be left behind again if they’re building to compete with current PS4/Xbone.

JL - That’s the hilarious part. They are so secretive about the NX and denying that they are killing off the Wii U and the NX is behind before they formally reveal it.

JG - And since they haven't revealed it, it means they don't have third party devs knowing what they're developing for? There's no way NDAs would totally prevent any leakage.

JL - You’d be surprised, but also Nintendo shits on third parties anyway.

CM - Plus they probably don’t have a ton of 3rd party developers lined up so not a lot of NDAs going out means less chance for them to leak.

JL - Plus all the PS4.5 rumors are based on loudmouth developers at GDC.

JG - I'm guessing those devs may have had NDAs since there are no attributed quotes in either Polygon or Giant Bomb's articles.

JL - The Wii U somehow made Nintendo's terrible 3rd party relationships even worse.

JG - Yeah, I know they do, which is why I'm saying, "Man, guys, learn?" Not that they're hurting for cash, but you said it: they may be behind before they formally reveal it.

JL - Nintendo has always been that way though, go back and look at TenGen games for the NES, right @colefacekilla ?

JG - Right, I remember that article. God, that story is hilarious. "You want ​_how_​ much money per cartridge to license your game? Fuck you."

What isn't clear

It looks like incremental console improvements are inevitable, but no one is talking about pricing or a roll out plan.

JG - Interesting they didn't say whether it was going to be tiered pricing or if the NEO is just going to be the new PS4 model. Or did I not read that right?

JL - It’s all rumors. Nothing confirmed yet so they won’t announce that shit. I’m assuming they use Apple’s pricing model and the NEO comes out at the current price of the PS4 with the current PS4s getting dropped in price further. They could get away with maybe $50 higher for the NEO.

The real question is if they will allow some sort of trade-in/upgrade program or just let me subsidize that shit and just treat it like my phone. Bundle up my PlayStation Plus subscription with a console fee.

JG - Now, that's an interesting idea.

• JG - Couple that with unlocking the box for your tv and we could have a Verizon/Sony partnership! Everyone wins.
• JL - Fuck cable. Plus Sony has PlayStation Vue. Pairing up with cable after finally evolving console upgrades would be 2 steps forward with 1 step back.
• JG - I hope you recognize that I was being facetious.
• JL - Hey, you bought an Xbone for a reason. You people are weird :)
• JG - I bought an Xbone for several reasons.
• JL - All of which were TERRIBLE :troll: ... Goddammit... My heart died during their e3 press conference. I was all in, man, and they gave me nuthin.
• JG - hahaha
• JL - Just oblivious assumptions they made about fan loyalty for a shitty product, just like Sony did years ago. So sad.
• JG - Yeah, that E3 presser was a goddamned hot mess.
• JL - The back peddling afterwards was some good reality television/internet. Plus, the subtle firing of that entire team over the next year.
• JG - Oh, shit. you're right. I guess I hadn't thought about the fact that everyone from that team is toast.
• JL - It’s quite remarkable that Phil Spencer’s sense of humor survived intact. That’s why he’s smirking all the time though, I guess, he just has to make the best of a bad situation and none of the decisions that got them here were his.
• JG - It makes him look like a recovery mensch, though.
• JL - They needed a likable/trustable face after Don Mattrick.
• JG - Uh, yeah, that's for sure. That absolute silence when they said that they were not supporting backward compatibility it was going to be always on?
• JL - Shoulda' never let Peter Moore walk.
• JG - Yeah, that's the truth.

What am I going to do with multiple PS4's?

This sounds ridiculous, but maybe there's an upside to having multiple versions of the same console?

CM - All of this NEO PS4 rumor mongering means is that @JDevL and I will now just have 2 PS4s in our houses. With the NEO getting the main living room space (for me) and the old one gets relegated to the bedroom.

C - Oh shit, @colefacekilla has an idea there. You can play Rocket League without moving your console.

JG - I was going to say 'bathroom'

CM - EXACTLY @coop. Instead of anger, I thought about possibilities.

C - I suddenly feel better about it. I'm just interested to hear what Microsoft response to it is. Since Phil kind of shut down the idea of an Xbox 1.5.

CM - They’ll probably wait until the NEO is confirmed and we will see all of this shit go down at E3... could be an exciting year.

Cole is right. E3 is going to be crazy this year and by the time E3 2017 rolls around we may no longer recognize the consoles or gaming devices in our living rooms.

Image Credits

Xbox 360 Red Ring - YouTube (Lord Karnage)
Killzone - PlayStation Store
Angry Reggie - Nintendo Life

During the Xbox Spring Showcase, Phil Spencer and the Microsoft team laid out their plans for the future of the Xbox One and how it relates to the the future of Windows 10 and PC gaming.

One particular news story stood out to us and had us trying to figure out how all of this might actually work - The Xbox One may support hardware upgrades in the future.

Coleman Monroe - What the fuck is going on in the console space? It’s getting nuts.

Justin Gifford - Yeah, the hardware upgrades thing kind of was shocking.

Justin Lacey - Shocking is a bit much, but it’s a nice shift. I do dig the ability to digitally buy 360 games on Xbox One though.

JG - Shocking is too strong of a word. I guess I'm just trying to figure out how they're going to actually make it moddable from a hardware perspective. But yes, the backwards compatibility part is good

JL - Yeah, I don’t know how they will do it with the current consoles. I can see them making a different version of the Xbox One that supports the upgrades. But that’ll be shitty, too, to original owners that is. But I think they know there isn’t going to be another traditional hardware cycle.

JG - Yeah. I mean, if it becomes a "open the case, pull out the old plugged in X, put in the new one" that's cool; I just don't know whether that's doable? Having just rebuilt my computer, that is - how much can you make it so that you just pull out the integrated stuff and pop a new thing in?


JL - That’s basically what those Steam Machines are. They just kind of box up components so you slide them in and out of place like cartridges. If you have to hook up cables, they’ve failed.

JG - Okay, I kind of figured that was doable, but i didn't know if it had been done.

JL - I’m sure it can be done better than the Steam machines, but that was their selling point beyond the price - upgradeable components. But still.

JG - But yeah, hinge the case and make everything...shit, what's the word...interchangeable isn't the right word

JL - Making it so CoD guy isn’t intimidated. He’s a dumbass. And he’s gon' be pissed when his console doesn’t run next years CoD.

JG - Oh, boy, I can't wait until the conspiracy crazies come out about that.

Break Out Those Sega Jokes

Our conversation was just beginning. Naturally, as with any major Microsoft announcement, it didn't take long for the internet to form its own opinions. Memes and Twitter jokes are fine, but Justin Gifford struck a nerve with Justin Lacey when a reputable site wrote an article reacting to the upgradable Xbox One - "An upgradable Xbox One? Think this one through, Microsoft"

JL - …

JG - You hate Ars Technica, don't you?

JL - They’ve been a lot less compelling since Kuchera left, haven’t found a writer to attach myself to.

Comparing the Xbone announcements to Sega is going the wrong way though. Telling us why it’s going to be better/different than PC upgrades is more of the focus of the upgrades. I** thought it was the most progressive Microsoft has been yet, and REALLY like what Phil Spencer has done since being made the face of the Xbone.** That thing could have been a dumpster fire. He’s been scratching and clawing out small victories to keep it relevant. Which is more remarkable given the obvious restrictions Microsoft puts on the Xbox team.

Ryan Billingsley - If MS did an annual hardware upgrade that you could buy and it was only a first-party upgrade, that doesn’t seem like that much of a development struggle. It's nowhere near the hodgepodge of PC hardware they have to deal with, which by the way, they are already dealing with.

JL - This console generation was the first one to start out behind mid-range PCs as far as power and that gap is only going to get wider. There’s totally a block of gamers and Xbox fans that would do regular hardware upgrades. Everyone is trained at this point to know that your 2-3 year old Android and iPhone won’t run the latest shit.

JG - That's a good point, Ryan. Justin, you know just because I post a link doesn't necessarily mean I endorse the author's view, right? I think it's an interesting counterpoint to what was a kind of cool, if optimistic, announcement from him the other day.

JL - Haha. I wasn’t sure cuz it was Sega :) But I wasn’t blowing up at you, I just thought the Sega comparison missed the point and laughed that it was Ars trying to get attention with a clever photoshop image.

I’m pretty much against destructive conversations in the gaming press that I feel are either 1) just filling their article quota or 2) being contrarian just for the sake of it (or for clicks).

I'm also just against dumb comparisons :) And sentences without emojis :)

JG - I still think you need to have the conversation, "Okay, that's cool, I kind of like the sound of that, but practically, what are we talking about? You've had some huge successes, but you also had things like the Always On debacle. Historically, this thing hasn't worked well." And as we talked about, it has to be dude-bro compatible.

Everyone is trained at this point to know that your 2-3 year old Android and iPhone won’t run the latest shit.

JL - That’s fair, but that was just the announcement on a day of announcements to build momentum for the Xbox. The last Xbox team sucked. But under Phil they’ve been much more transparent and followed through on the things they’ve talked about. He can’t be held to the previous team’s dumb plans and promises.

JG - Well, yes and no. Just because you're the new team doesn't mean you get a clean slate. And I was picking the always-on not because I was batshit insane about it, or that it was a horrible idea, but because they talked about without really explaining much. And yes, i know it was just a press conference.

JL - Yeah, they definitely haven’t earned anyone’s trust with those high level promises, and most people don’t notice the change in teams like that. But that’s where good game journalism comes in. I don’t get pissed if a gamer expresses something like that article, but that’s where the press fails.

JG - It was definitely one-note on the historical part; it didn't address other specific concerns like our dudebro discussion or Ryan's, "Yeah, but PC games already deal with that - so what if there's a yearly first-party known-quantity hardware upgrade?" But the historical was something that made me kind of go, "Hrm." Although, I'm not 100% convinced that we're going to see an exodus of people leaving for PC because of that below-mid-range performance at launch issue.

JL - Yeah, that’s the funny part about that argument, because those people will never leave consoles, they will just go do something else.

(Editor's Note - Oh look, Penny Arcade made the same Sega joke in their web comic.) Apparently, Penny Arcade and Ars Technica share the same creative staff, Gifford.)

Construction Problems

More questions arise around the familiar lines of PC vs console gaming. Do console gamers want to upgrade their consoles on a regular basis? What advantages will that have (if any) over maintaining your own custom PC?

RB - I just think the article is out of touch with what is my perception of high level, AAA gaming right now. When you see article after article about how good the PC version of a game looks, you know that grinds MS and Sony’s gears. As someone who doesn’t have a gaming PC, I would love to be able to keep bumping up the performance of a console so that I can stretch its life.

Also, when you have VR headsets coming out with ridiculous GPU requirements, you have to wonder what consoles do in that case.

JG - I built a gaming PC and FML does it look good. Like, there's no comparison. I'm sure you're right about that, Ryan.

RB - I really wish that GPUs for both PCs, consoles, even mobile would all move external like the dream IBM sold when Thunderbolt first premiered.

I also thought the comparisons to previous attempts was an odd one. Most of those were add-ons that ​changed​ the functionality of the device, either playing a new media (floppies) or adding a new game play mechanic (Kinect). This is a performance improvement, so nothing changes as far as what you are playing, no one has to make specific software for it, no one has to manufacture a new media format for it. Again, ask any PC gamer who drops a new video card in their machine.

JL - Haha, I never thought to compare Kinect to Sega CD and 32X but thank you for that. Nice new video card. what’s that? you need a new CPU, too? Aww shucks.

RB - Ha, yea.

JL - Your outlook is also interesting, Ryan, because you held off on a new console for a while and stuck to Mac gaming. So somewhere in there the gaming PC didn’t make sense for you, yet you recognize the current console limitations. It’s also weird to agree that IBM apparently has a better outlook for gaming than Sony and Microsoft right now.

RB - I was a PC gamer all through high school and college, but at some point I just couldn’t keep up with upgrading my stuff and that steady of a clip and wanted something a bit more stable. When I bought my first Xbox that was pretty much the end of my PC gaming days.

JG - That was what happened to me, too, until these yahoos convinced me to jump back in.

I also thought the comparisons to previous attempts was an odd one. Most of those were add-ons that ​changed the functionality of the device, either playing a new media (floppies) or adding a new gameplay mechanic (Kinect).

JL - This is all Josh’s fault, Gifford. I was perfectly content being an Xbox 360 fanboy and never going back to my PC. Because prior to my 360, my last PC that I built, kinda choked on itself. And I was just over the endless upgrade cycles, until the 360/PS3 started getting stale. All it takes is one great looking PC game to get you hooked though, and you want more. I definitely bought GTAV on PC just to make my PC flex.

Maybe my standards are lowered, but I was just really glad to see Microsoft looking forward for once and speaking about it without an absolute solution. They realize that the rest of this console cycle and whatever the next consoles are, aren’t going to be in lines with what we traditionally expect. And that dream of a unified Windows ecosystem still appeals to me if it doesn’t get in my way. If there’s no difference between gaming on any of those devices (impossible), it sounds pretty nice.

JG - Agree 100% there.

Bringing It All Together May Not Be Tolerated

Microsoft was starting to look a bit more progressively at the Xbox One hardware and that starts to blur the lines between consoles and PC's even more. There is one more piece to the Microsoft puzzle though, since Xbox is only one piece of their business. It turns out that Microsoft is once again going after bringing together the entire Windows family. The Universal Windows Platform (UWP) is Microsoft's solution to allowing Windows apps to run on all Windows devices from tablets to Windows 10 to the Xbox One.

JG - I just read something about Epic's CEO losing his fucking shit over UWP. Seemed a little...i dunno, over-wrought?

JL - Lol on Ars :)

JG - The irony did not escape me, but it was originally on the Guardian.

JL - There you go, that's better. Anyway, I dunno why Epic thinks this is any different than it has been. If it's bad, like Windows Live it will fail, again. Each ecosystem has its limits.

JG - I kind of felt like he was raging at the storm. Like, "Okay, you don't like it. That's nice."

JL - Valve tried to make Linux gaming a thing. No one helped them out.

JG - Yes, that occurred to me while I was reading. "Okay, what's your alternative, dude?"

JL - He's in a position to do something about it, too. So quityerbitchin' and do something.

JG - I mean, I don't really think MS is going to totally lock out Steam and Origin and (ohgod) Uplay. Maybe it was just an opening negotiating tactic.

Coop - Bah, that article is stupid. Let Microsoft do what they want to do. You don't have to make your games for it.

JG - I honestly kind of thought that and then chuckled and thought, "Good luck storming the castle!"

via Giphy

C - I mean, I fully support the idea of Microsoft launching this platform to bring the Xbox and PC community together. Let me play Xbox exclusives on my PC or let me play a game with an Xbox user from my PC.

JG - That part, I really like.

C - It's really no different than Origin. I can't buy EA games on Steam. Which is kind of annoying, but whatever. We got pissed for a while, and now we just stopped buying EA games ;)

JG - For the most part, yes.

C - Unless we have to.

JG - Right.

C - So yeah, Microsoft won't shut down Steam. They know what will happen if they try. So if you're a Steam developer, be a Steam developer, and don't get mad about what they're doing.

JG - Microsoft isn't going to invest the kind of capitol needed to, you know, buy all the game developers everywhere and bring them in house or however you would structure it (I've been thinking about corporate structure all week; my brain is tired), that would be stupid. So talking about 'killing' Steam seemed a little disingenuous. Like, "Hey! We're going to create a closed ecosystem, but there won't be any games. It'll work as well for us as Blackberry!"

Yeah, no.

Since our conversation there has been a bit more back and forth between Epic and Microsoft:

I like the sound of this, and look forward to thorough technical details on UWP's planned openness at //build. https://t.co/9oitPe3DuM

— Tim Sweeney (@TimSweeneyEpic) March 4, 2016

Consolation Prize

After taking time initially to smooth over the launch issues of the Xbox One, Microsoft was due to make some changes and announcements about the future of the platform. This is a Microsoft that is looking toward building toward an iterative future versus forcing one on its audience before it was ready. It's hard to bet on the promises of MS at this point which makes it easy to distrust and pick a part the logic of those promises. However, it seems MS has stopped the negative momentum of Xbox and is taking action to turn things around. If it works out Xbox owners and PC owners will have a much more cohesive experience no matter where they choose to play their games. If it doesn't work out, perhaps a third party will step up to define the future of gaming on and around console platforms.